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Learnings and Missteps
The Learnings and Missteps Podcast is about unconventional roads to success and the life lessons learned along the way.
You will find a library of interviews packed with actionable take aways that you can apply as you progress on your career path.
Through these interviews you will learn about the buttons you can push to be a better leader, launch a business, and build your influence.
Find yourself in their stories and know that your path is still ahead of you.
Learnings and Missteps
Megan Shapiro: Authenticity as a Superpower
In this episode of the Learnings and Missteps podcast, Jesse reconnects with Megan Shapiro, an accomplished lawyer and repeat guest. They discuss her evolving career and ventures, including launching the Converge Construction Summit and her business coaching initiatives. Megan shares insights on navigating setbacks, growing her network, and intentionally serving her community. With candid stories of her unique branding journey and strategic goals, this episode offers inspiration for professionals looking to leverage their skills and passion for greater impact in their industries.
00:00 Overcoming Setbacks and Learning from Failures
00:18 Introducing the Guest: Megan Shapiro
02:10 The Power of Branding and Personal Style
03:36 Embracing the Pink Blazer: A Branding Journey
06:43 Building a Community and Networking
11:54 The Importance of Tenacity and Resilience
13:09 Creating and Marketing Online Courses
16:41 The Value of Authentic Engagement
21:06 In-Person Networking and Building Relationships
26:20 Exploring New Ventures: Do It Like a Lawyer
31:15 From Conversation to Workshop
31:44 The Make Your Case Workshop
32:29 Challenges with Male Audiences
33:14 Success with Women-Focused Workshops
34:08 Resilience and Rejection
35:41 Expanding Influence and Impact
40:02 Balancing Law and Business
42:43 The Converged Construction Summit
53:47 Future Plans and Intentional Growth
58:23 Final Thoughts and Reflections
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Don't think that that was just an easy, I took the L and moved on. Like I had to lick my wounds, I did, but certainly I learned a ton about what messaging wasn't working, which then helps you figure out what might, and then that leads you to what will.
SPEAKER_00:What is going on, LM family? Back again. And this time, I think actually, this is the very, very first time we're doing this. We have a repeat offender on the screen. If you haven't heard the first episode, go back and listen to it. My friend, Miss Megan Shapiro, amazed Esquire. She's a lawyer. And no, I don't know her because she helped me stay out of my criminal past. I met her on LinkedIn, super amazing human being. And since the last time we had our conversation on this podcast, she's launched a whole new universe. She's out there making big moves, serving in big ways. And I'll say the maybe I can say the western United States and continuing towards the East. It seems to be going that direction. You're going to get to know all the highlights, all the updates. But first, if this is your first time here, you're listening to the Learnings and Missteps podcast, where you get to see how amazing people just like you are sharing their gifts and talents to leave this world better than they found it. I am Jesse, your selfish servant, and we are about to get to know a little bit more about my friend Miss Megan. Megan, how are you?
SPEAKER_01:Good. But I, my mind is blown because despite the number of conversations that you and I have had, I had no idea that I'm your first repeat offender.
SPEAKER_00:I yes, I think I'll have to double check, but I'm pretty damn sure you are the first. And I'm glad it's you because you got all kinds of stuff going on.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I am super stoked to get to be the first repeat offender. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Of course. So how long has it been a year? No, it's probably been longer than a year.
SPEAKER_01:I think it has. I think we probably recorded at the end of 23, maybe early 24.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my god. Wow. Yeah, time has been flying. And so first I gotta say, it seems like every video, every clip, and even now, I see you're wearing your brand colors. And I'm like, man, I need to go start buying me some clothes with my brand colors, but I don't know if I'll be able to find it. So maybe that's the first question. Do you have a whore a whole wardrobe customized with your brand colors? And if so, tell me who your person is because I need some of that action.
SPEAKER_01:Amazon is my person.
SPEAKER_00:I love it.
SPEAKER_01:Jeff Bezos, I yeah, I do have I do have a lot of print options in the brand color, the hot pink, but I do get them from a variety of places. Several of them have come from Amazon. This is actually the original blazer that started it all two years ago on accident. And I think this was from like Marshalls or something. Yeah, so I tend to just sort of grab stuff when I see it when I'm out shopping, and then I reserve Amazon for if I'm looking for a very specific piece.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, okay. Well then I'm gonna have to hit up Marshalls and I'm gonna have to get on Amazon. Ken, did you notice I'm matchy with the brandish colors?
SPEAKER_01:I did, and because I'm also selfish, like you described yourself, I just assumed you did that just for me.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, of course. Of course I did. Now, you said you already opened the door, so I gotta go there. You said this is the blazer that kind of started it all.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. What is all well, just the brand color, to be clear. This is the blazer that started the brand color. So, for those of you who actually met me in person and actually know me pretty well, probably knowing that hot pink is my brand color is a little bit of a surprise because it's not really it doesn't go with my personality. I am oh, you're making a I'm okay. I want to I'm gonna interview you now. Why are you making that face?
SPEAKER_00:I think the hot pink goes with the personality that I know, right? Super high energy, be careful. It might you might get stung. Sharp, quick. That's what I get out of hot pink, and that's what I get out of you. I don't maybe I don't see hot pink as like a soft color. I see it as a power color. And every interaction that you and I have had is nothing but power. Is that's all I'm taking from it.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. Okay, well, thank you for that feedback. And it's interesting you that you said I can sting because I'm big into astrology and I am a Scorpio, so we definitely are known for stinging. And that's what I was going to say is I'm like, you'll notice that my nails are almost always black, my glasses are black. I always my nail artist, I don't have to tell her anymore because I've been with her long enough now. But when I first started seeing her, I always go, Yes, I want my nails black like my soul. So I feel like I am black, and hot pink is such like a contrast to that. So what happened was, gosh, it I think it was early 24, I think. The Sacramento Region Builders Exchange was doing programming that was focused on women in construction leading up to their annual women in construction conference that's here in Sacramento at our convention center. And I went to one of the events that was in the sort of runway. And on a whim, I was like, oh, I, you know what? I feel like I want to wear a bright color. And I had just gotten this blazer and a lime green laser blazer.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So they were both in my closet and I was like, hmm, what do I want to go with? And I was like, well, women in construction, I'll go with pink. Okay. So I throw the blazer on, go to this event. Well, again, for those of you who know my personality, the next part of the story will come as no surprise. But the facilitators who were doing the workshop asked for volunteers. So of course I volunteered. Of course, I volunteered. And I became sort of, they actually ended up having a lot of volunteers that were doing this particular activity as part of the workshop. And again, no surprise to those who know me, I had the only position relative to me, and everybody else had like different take on whatever this thing was. So I was kind of standalone anyway. And so everybody else started talking about me again as part of it, right? Like why I had taken the position I had taken. And so they began to refer to me as the pink blazer girl. Okay. Because it was like it was the easy way to refer to me. So I was like, oh man, well, fast forward to the next women in construction event that I went to a couple of a month or six weeks later. And several people came up to me and said, I almost didn't recognize you without your pink blazer. And that was the moment that I was like, oh man, okay, if I want to build this out and be recognized, I just gotta lean into it.
SPEAKER_00:So that okay, so it wasn't. I love that. I and I think there's a huge value point there for like LM family members out there, entrepreneurs or people that want to start a side hustle, is pay attention to what people respond to. Because there's a tremendous, like that's no friction. Let's just say you picked your color to be black, but everybody was responding to pink, then you got to sell them on the black. If they're already down with the pink, give them more pink, man. So it wasn't like a color, you just picked a blazer, yep, and and that was it. But the response was like, uh oh, there's something here. Let me lean into that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. And in the early days, because now I've I embraced it, it's been almost two years since I embraced it, but in the early days, I struggled a little bit because it is not like I'm not a pink girl. There are a lot of women out there who are just like they always loved pink. Pink has always been and I'm not one of those people. And so I really struggled in the beginning with feeling a bit inauthentic and how I was showing up because it was so not what I was feeling inside. And so I was like, is this coming across too contrived or I'm trying too hard? But I kept getting the same feedback, like what you shared, about how it comes across to you. And so that slowly eroded my insecurity about it. And now, like I see pink everywhere, and now I get excited when I see it. I'm like, oh, I need to grab that. I need to add that to my wardrobe. My phone case is now pink, my stairs. It makes it easy.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Oh, I love that. Okay, so brand colors was a response to the audience to people saying, Hey, that's the pink lady. And then I know that last time we talked it, I think you were tinkering. Yeah, yeah, you were already kind of out there doing something because you're like a real lawyer, right? You're a partner at a firm and you do construction legal stuff, like serious stuff. But you were going down this vein, it seemed like you saw. Well, let me ask you, did you say, I want to do this, I'm gonna make this happen, or was it more, oh, that's something. Let me go explore that vein, the side hustle, whatever that is. What was what which one was it? Was it I'm gonna make it happen, or let me go explore. That looks interesting.
SPEAKER_01:It was both.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So I did intentionally set out to start a side hustle, but the side hustle that I set out to start was going to be exclusively an online self-study course. So edit and forget it kind of situation. And I drew more on what I do as a construction attorney. And so it was really more holistic in terms of proactive risk management focused for construction leaders. And I think that was just too big of a thing because I had modules that covered things like strategic corporate formation. I had things I did talk about contracts, but that was just one out of eight modules. So I was trying to do a little bit in a bunch of different key areas, and it didn't really land. I tried, I worked on that for probably the first nine to 12 months when I was doing this. You heard it. Yeah, and it was just that. And I finally I got the whole course created, recorded all the videos, housed it on ThinkIphic, created all of the resources that went along with it, all the things, and I sold zero courses. Oh, not a single person.
SPEAKER_00:I'm gonna do the LM family member shout-out. This one goes to my brother and and Megan's brother too, Mr. Lance Furuyama. Lance said, I was fortunate enough to join the second session of the time management workshop. And it changed the way I look at my calendar. For those that know me, it looks like I'm a master of organization and planning. What I didn't realize is that I wasn't allowing any time in my calendar for myself or the things that I want to do. Lance, thank you, my brother. I know you're out there. Also, baller making all kinds of great things happen. And folks, that's the self-first time mastery workshop. Sign up for the thing. If not, get some of the downloadables. That's what he's talking about. It's the justified way of looking at time and really more accurately managing yourself. And if you are out there and you leave a comment, a message, a review, all of the things, you give me an excuse to shout you out in the future. So please do that so I can tell my mom that other people listen too.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. But while I was building that up, I was creating the relationships like with you and Lance and all of our wonderful, what I call the construction corner of LinkedIn, all these amazing people. I was getting a lot of great feedback. I was paying attention to what was hitting, what was resonating, what really people wanted to hear about from me, what people viewed as my expertise. And so that's the thread that I did sort of follow after what I thought I set out to do bombed me. I sort of followed the thread and got to where I am now.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my God. So two things that I think are ultra powerful, and one specifically is one of the many things that I really appreciate about you. Your tenacity and resilience. Tenacity to do the damn thing, not for a week and say, Well, nobody bought, I give up. Freaking nine months. That's serious hours and time and obsessing and doubting and questioning of every little bit. I know, right? Oh, how do I form this module and how do I market it? All that crap. Checking the damn stats every 30 minutes, like maybe.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And you didn't stop. And then you went on to so to me, that's resilience, being able to do that, the tenacity to put in the work because you're a mom, wife, you're a partner at a firm, you have a whole lot going on, and you still like it's interesting, right? Because people say, I don't have time. My friend Megan has the same amount of time you do, and she has a lot of the constraints that you do, right? I mean, I don't want to be ugly, but you did it. And what that means is it's possible. Sure, everybody has different things, I get that, but come on, man. Anyways, here's what I'm what I've so I want people to take that away. Is man, you got to put in the time, you got to put in the effort, and there's no guarantees. But what are the transferable skills or the what is the transferable knowledge you got from building that course and shooting a big fat zero because you haven't stopped and bigger things have manifested, I'm gonna say manifested from that. So, were there any transferable skills or experiences in launching the course that have contributed to where you're at now?
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. There's a reason why it's common business and entrepreneurial knowledge that you learn more from your failures than your successes, right? There's a reason why all the successful big entrepreneurs out there say that. So I did lick my wounds. I mean, I don't get me wrong, I don't want to mislead anybody to think that like the selling zero just rolled off my back after. I mean, I was at my law firm office so that I could record with good video without the distraction of my kid and my husband. So I was out, I spent every weekend for four months in my office recording those videos. So like, yeah. So don't think that that was just an easy, I took the L and moved on. Like I had to lick my wounds, I did, but certainly I learned a ton about what messaging wasn't working, which then helps you figure out what might, and then that leads you to what will. So there were a lot of the, I mean, of course, like the tech stuff, right? I learned how to record a video, I learned how to edit a video, I learned how to build a website, I learned what to do with an email. Like I learned all those sort of like technical things that are, of course, always transferable. But for me, the biggest one, the biggest, I don't, and I don't know if I want to call it, but my biggest takeaway, my biggest outcome was really the network that I was building along the way and the connections, the relationships that I formed. Because I was super lucky and you were a part of, you were a little bit further ahead of us. You're always gonna be a little bit further ahead of the rest of us. But I was really lucky that there were a lot of really awesome construction content creators on LinkedIn at the same time that I was starting, who were also starting out. You, like I said, you were there, but you had already been there, right? So you were a little bit further ahead than some of the rest of us. But you and some of these other people that were a little ahead, like Lance is a great example. You guys are so willing to sort of like give the hand back and help teach us and mentor us and pull us along and pull us up. And that helped us build these sort of little pockets of accountability buddies, people who are totally willing to share their time freely with bouncing ideas and brainstorming and hey, have you thought about this? And even giving some tough feedback, right? We both know Josh Lubker. He is, I always talk about Josh when this comes up because Josh is probably the person that I've met and connected with the most who gives it to me the straightest without sugarcoating it at all. He is not worried about my feelings. And I that's a good thing. I don't draw a criticism. I need that person that's look, this is gonna probably hurt your feelings, but you need to hear it if you actually want to be successful. If you just want to do this and have fun and only have the feel goods, I'll just tell you what you want to hear. But you've got people who are telling you what you want to hear. I'm gonna tell you what you need to hear. And so it's though, it's that community that came out of the failure that I attribute the most to the success to the extent that I have success now, but to where I am now, I'll say it that way.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, now it's uh amazing. I think again, that's a huge nugget for the listeners out there. In summary, it might bomb. So what? Lick your wounds and reflect. Okay, what did I what's the takeaway? What's the lesson or lessons that can be like plug and play going forward? Now you mentioned the community. You didn't passively build a community, and what I mean by that is I have we have people in our circle and I have friends that are like, man, I post, but like I don't get any interaction. It's okay, whose content do you interact with? Well, what do you mean? I'm like, ah, there's problem number one, right? Go and interact on other people's stuff. How many people have you reached out to just because you thought they were cool or interesting? Whoa, okay, like start doing that. I didn't do it this way, but when I'm talking to people and they're interested in getting active, it's not like I'm a pro, but I know how to get started, right? If I would have like going back, what I should have done and what I recommend to people. So, listener out there, if you're a lurker, I'm gonna give you some nuggets. It is very easy and very high return. Just comment on other people's stuff. I didn't do that at the beginning, right? Commenting on other people's stuff and not saying, agreed, great insight. Thank you for that. Not you could start there, you'll get a pass for about a week, and then you gotta elevate your game. But like really finding people that I agree with or that maybe I don't agree with, and posting, making a comment that of my unique perspective on what they said, whether it's an agreement or not, that's an easy lift to start building community. Now, when I say passive, going back to my statement about like passively building a community, what I really mean is the people that post once or twice a week and they're pissy because they're not getting any engagement. I think that's what I'm talking about when I say passive because they're not actively engaging on other people's stuff, they're just like, everybody come to me. Now, how's that relative to you? Well, you were super, I don't know if the words strategic or intentional, but you weren't playing. You went out, like the community didn't just happen. You went out and built a community. What was your thinking and what were the steps that you did? Because there was a bunch of things that you did that I think are super, super valuable, that are just another part of that thing, right? The Lego block or the puzzle piece for people that want to for make it happeners that want to start a side hustle or start a business or whatever. In terms of the way you built your community and went out and networked, what were the things?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I definitely did what you're talking about, right? Like I, as I was able to identify people who were posting construction-related content that either had a perspective that I agreed with or maybe had a perspective that I didn't agree with but had an opinion about, uh, so that I could engage valuably, I tried to forge those connections, right? And I tried to do so authentically. And I think that's the big key, right? So, like when I was commenting on people's posts, and I obviously still do this now, although I admit that I am not nearly as active on other people's posts lately as I previously was and hope to be again in the future. But there are only so many hours in the day. But I was, I was really intentional about showing up authentically. So I wouldn't comment unless I actually had an app a position to take and an opinion to share, good or bad. And in the early days, I also had an open invitation, and I'm not sure that this would work in 20 in late 2025. I'm curious for your thoughts on this too, Jesse. But I at the time in early 24, I had an open invitation. People could self-book time on my calendar to do that. And I would tell people, I've got one rule, there's no pitching. I don't want you to sell me anything, and I'm not going to sell you anything. This is exclusively to actually get to know each other on a personal level. That's how you and I for deepened our connection, Jesse. And I'm and that really allowed me to show up authentically, to get to know people, hopefully authentically, and figure out whether these are people that I'm want to remain invested in. Okay, can this be an actual relationship or does this need to stay a little more arm's length that, like, okay, well, comment on your stuff, you can comment on mine, but I don't necessarily need to have you, I don't know, come visit my house and stay in my spare bedroom with my kids like you have. So it's a little bit of a, it's a uh, it's a screener, right? But it also more importantly allows you to kind of really figure out those relationships that are worth investing in and go deeper, which is how I, which is how I truly feel like I built my community. And once I had done that, then other opportunities came up to really go to actually work together. So the first time you and I met in person, of course, I attended one of your in-person weekend events.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:That allowed me to then meet other people that I was worth interacting with on LinkedIn. And we got to get to, we got to spend a weekend together getting to know each other. Then things like LCI Congress, right? I I was uh, I don't know if I'm supposed to say this out loud, but I was I crashed LCI Congress last year. I decided to just fly down without a ticket and hang out in the lobby just so I could hang out with people that I had already met in person or meet some new people that I had engaged with but hadn't gotten an opportunity to meet in person. So I did kinds of those kinds of things. The reason why I should just close the loop, the reason why I said I'm not sure that the open invitation for coffee chats would work anymore, is I think that it's a lot harder to get people to invest in the time for a coffee chat without the opportunity to pitch. I think people are like, I'll do it, but I want to have the chance to pitch. That's my perception based off of that who would have thought you could increase the number of cold pitches in the DMs that you get, but mine have increased. So I'm not sure it would work now, but that's definitely a strategy that I used in the beginning.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, I took advantage. I'm like, one, just because the of the way that you commented and I could see you interacting with everybody else, like, okay, she's for real. And I was like, oh, well, I could just schedule a call. Well, hell yeah, let's do this. But I'll tell you the truth, like, I was still skeptical. There's probably gonna be a pitch, and it wasn't. It was just, I mean, we ran out of time because we were like just having like, oh man, pass the test. We gotta hang, we're friends, right? Bam, but too bad. You're you've been adopted. For me, I still have a thing, it's on my website. I think it's on my link. I don't know, I gotta check my profile. Used to be where it was anybody schedule a call, book a call now. And it's interesting, like I didn't have to say no pitches, but what it is, it's a phone call. So if you sign up, you gotta give me your phone number. And I think that alone filtered out all the pitches because what I found is people, I mean, I've had a few people reach out in the DMs of, oh, I'd love to connect and have a yeah, here's the link, schedule the call. And then they'll I've had a couple immediately send me back their scheduling link. And guess what? Their scheduling link takes me to it takes me to a Zoom meeting. Ah, you want to handcuff me so that I can see your damn pitch deck. That's not what you said. You said connect and learn how to like negative. So, anyways, summary there is because of the phone call thing, I get the privacy part right, but so I'll give people a pass on that. But for me, the way I viewed it is it was anybody that wants to do a pitch, they're not gonna be able to do their pitch deck on the phone, and so they'll just not do it, and it but seems to be working now. The other side, it's interesting how many people don't do it, like it's there for anybody, but there's not like a super I expected like, oh my god, my calendar's gonna be flooded with all these random calls, and it's not. So I don't know if it's just maybe there's something wrong with me. I don't know, but I think here's what I'll say I think giving people an avenue to connect with you on a deep deeper level is a good thing. What that is, that's up to the individual. That's case by case situation. So you did a lot of massive things, you built up uh the network, and one thing I want to point out that people can't miss because it's interesting. I like the way you call it the LinkedIn construction corner, right? And people are like, Yeah, y'all are all like friends, and I'm like, Yeah, like how do y'all why are y'all so close? Because we've made efforts to meet in person.
SPEAKER_02:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:Did it cost a plane ticket? Yeah, for some of us, not for everybody, but for at some point, somebody made an investment to travel somewhere to go meet weirdos that they met on the friggin' internet. And for some people, that's a little crazy. For me, it's not, it makes perfect sense because I've met some freaking amazing people. And so for the listener out there, you gotta the question is this how much do you want to connect? And what are you willing to sacrifice? Because a plane ticket, I know they're not free, but I've spent that's a couple weekends at the bar, right? Just don't go to the bar for a couple weeks, and I got them, I got money for a whole well, maybe, and now I know I used to drink as much as maybe people don't drink that much, but three to five hundred bucks on a weekend at the bar was not like that. Was a moderate weekend for me back in the day. My point is figure out what you can do to continue investing in the relationship from passive on LinkedIn, commenting to DMing to a call to a video to in-person, because you've done all of those things. And I want to make sure that's super, super obvious because you've, I mean, I'm just gonna say it. You've got do it like a lawyer, you've got converge construction, you've got the I don't know what in my head it's a third. Say again, the contract coach, yeah, and these things are like catching fire, and it's not because of your email sequence alone. You've put in a lot of damn time and effort, like the sweat equity, to freaking connect with people, so people don't miss that. That's really important. So let's go into the we talked about the contracts course. Is that still available? No, no, you killed it, you sunset it.
SPEAKER_01:I did, yeah. I mean, I have all the content. If somebody out there is just dying, well, so first of all, let me clarify it's not a contracts course, that one is open for enrollment. But the proactive risk management course has been sunset. If anybody out there heard me describe it and is just dying for it, I'll send it to you for free. Shoot me a DM or an email, I'll give you all the videos and the content. It does, but it's not available for consumption out there in the world, no.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, okay. But you do you've done some in-person risk training contract kind of awareness stuff. What's that called?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So I have construction contract coach. So I'm a little bit of a domain groupie. I collect domains. So I house all of my different offers on the domain that matches them. So I do own Megan Shapiro.com and I think of that as sort of the clearinghouse, right? So everything else, you can be you can find everything there, but I do have individual standalone websites for the individual offers. So there's constructioncontractcoach.com, there's doitlika lawyer.com, and then there's converged construction summit.com. So construction contract coach.com is where you can hire me for one-on-one contract coaching. That's a series of eight one-hour coaching sessions that cover the eight key contractual provisions that make a make the biggest impact on overall profitability and bottom line for most trades in their contract formation. And we work through that in my proprietary own framework. So I show you how to optimize way and negotiate your contracts so you can review, red line, and negotiate like a lawyer, so that you don't need to hire an attorney every time a contract comes across your desk. And you invest in yourself once as opposed to paying a recurring subscription fee to an AI platform. So that's one of the offers on construction contract coach. I do also do in-person team trainings. So uh what that looks like is sometimes I'll do it for trade organizations. I was at the Builders Exchange of San Joaquin, wrapping up my sixth series or the sixth session in the series of in-person contract training. Um, but individual construction companies will also bring me in-house to do the trainings for their project managers, superintendents, construction manager or contract managers, whoever in their business is responsible for really truly owning and managing the contracts. I'll come in and I'll do a takeoff of the same sort of principles and show you how to read, review, red line, negotiate a contract from beginning to end. It's the full crap around. So that's what I offer on construction on construction contract coach.
SPEAKER_00:Nice, nice. So you got that.
SPEAKER_01:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:Then you got do it like a lawyer.
unknown:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:And I know that's been you've been tinkering and that's kind of been evolving. Yes. You've been testing in some circles, it didn't resonate. And then all it seems like you found a nice, what do they? What's the fancy language? Product market fit. What is what so what is do it like a lawyer? What's the mission? What's the story behind it?
SPEAKER_01:So do it like a lawyer is started out as just a catchphrase, actually, to go along with the contract review, right? It started as like the final part of I'll teach you how to review, red line, and negotiate a contract like a lawyer. That's how it started. But then it evolved again, the pink brand color, it kind of evolved and took on a life of its own that I embraced. So at the first Converge, which was not called Converge back then, it had a ridiculously cumbersome name, construction LinkedIn in real life, hashtag Savannah in September. Yeah. Very cumbersome. Um, but at the very first one of those, where a select few people who were will who were Willing to really get out of their comfort zone and invest in meeting in person. We all got together and I did a lot of the sort of programming for the first year because we didn't really know what we were doing. It was just like, oh, let's all get together. And I don't know, what are we going to talk about? Well, I've got some ideas because I've got all of these lawyer skills that are really transferable if you break it down in a certain way. And I got really lucky because there was this really insightful, very intelligent, super awesome guy who's an amazing dancer and has wonderful feet that he can sell and make money off of his pictures of, who took all of that and came to me in Sacramento, came to visit me, flew into Sacramento, sat me down at my own kitchen table and said, Hey, I love you. You're an idiot because this is right in front of your face and you don't even realize it. Let me tell you what I think this can be.
SPEAKER_00:Nah, you have amazing friends, Megan. That's all I gotta say.
SPEAKER_01:I do. I do have amazing friends. So fast forward from that conversation with Jesse, and it became a workshop. So it's interactive, which I really like workshops better because I don't like personally as an attendee. I don't like going to sessions at conferences where I just listen to people talk. I don't really like keynotes all that much for the same reason. Like I might get one really quotable quote out of it, and that's my big takeaway from the whole thing. So I like workshops. I want to have a walk-away tangible thing, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:So my so that all evolved into the make your case workshop where I where I focus on again through the lens of using lawyer-y skills to approach difficult conversations. And the takeaway at the end of the workshop is you have an actual communication strategy blueprint where you have now role-played in the workshop a difficult conversation that you have coming up or one that you've been avoiding, so that you've practiced it based off of known communication styles and all the things that we work through. I've got a custom, a proprietary framework that I use within the workshop called the Four Natural Voices Framework. And we work through that and you walk out having practiced multiple times this difficult conversation to give you the confidence to go into that conversation with the clarity and confidence of an attorney, do it like a lawyer, so that you can really make an impact. Now, to your point earlier, I thought that was a skill that everybody would want to learn.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:As I floated it in different groups and diff with different attendees, what really sort of bubbled to the surface is, and I guess I should not have been surprised, I should have seen this coming. I'm just gonna say it. It's probably gonna be an unpopular thing to say. Feel free to edit it out if you don't like it, Jesse. But men didn't like it. And that's just the reality. Men, and I don't know if it was because they didn't, because I'm a female attorney and they didn't want to hear it from a woman, or if it was that I'm an attorney at all, because some of the feedback I got from men in business, C-suite level men in business was there's nothing special about you. What do you think that you can teach me? That's a quote that I got. And so again, licked my wounds, went back to the drawing board, and realized the original group that I had done it for was the Women in Construction Conference here in Sacramento. And it was a wild success, which is why I thought that I could take it out and do it to a more varied audience.
SPEAKER_03:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:And I went back to my roots, they loved it. I then did it again at the Better Business Bureau Women's Conference here in Sacramento, and it was again a wild success. And so I was like, oh, okay, well, why can't I just only choose to serve women with this particular office?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, wait, I can. As a woman through male-dominated industries because law is still male-dominated, and of course, construction is male-dominated.
unknown:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:I've got a lot to teach other women in male-dominated industries about finding their voice and making sure that they are heard because they belong in the rooms where decisions are made and to have their voice heard in those rooms. And so I now teach them how to show up in those rooms like a lawyer.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my God. Again, oh, so again, the tenacity and the resilience, right? You went and did this thing, and of course, it I am not surprised. Um, you know what? I'm a little bit surprised that you didn't see it coming.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Because dudes are dumb, and not just dumb, we're delicate, right? Like so for, and I think you you read it right. It's not just because you're a lawyer, it's also because you're a female lawyer that is saying, Let me teach you. So now that's the dominoes are that three dominoes. One, I'm a lawyer, you're not. Two, I'm a woman, and then three, I'm gonna teach you. Too many men can't, that's way too much to like you've already you just blew up my comfort zone. So the fence is gonna come out and say there's nothing you can teach me that I don't already know, or whatever. And that would be enough to shut a lot of people down.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And and I don't know if you think about it this way, but I know I do. Because so I've been asked, like, how do you feel about rejection or this kind of feedback? And I'm like, it's a data point, like it's all data, right? Like they're gonna tell me based on whatever they tell me is an indicator of keep going or stop, I'm not gonna stop. So keep going, and maybe I need to shift the direction a degree or two, and the more rejection I get, it's just clear data of where not to play or who not to waste time on. And so for you to what I think is amazing, I'm gonna say it right now, prediction. In five years, when you're taking over the country and like all the way to the East Coast, and just and then they start inviting you to like dude stuff too. I'm gonna be saying, I'm gonna be there to say, you dumbasses, you were scared three, five years ago, because I love what you said, and maybe that's already woven into your messaging. But women who work in male-dominated industries need these skills too, yeah, 100%. And then I know men need them too, but maybe the way you kind of get there or a pathway to that is like young professionals, right? Because think of I think of the younglings zero to three years out of university, they don't have the skill set, and the ones that do think they have the skill set are freaking doing it wrong, they're just not doing it right. And so, I mean, that whole line there, the do-it-like a lawyer thing, I love the name because it helps people get in their fields, and you ain't gotta waste your time with them. And I now I also point I want to make is there's a lot of folks that do things specifically for women from a victim, I'm gonna say it from a victim perspective, right? But no, like we can say, and I will bear witness. Like, no, no, no, no. She didn't start with women because she was scared, she started with women because she didn't start with women, she started with an open group, but guys are dumb and sensitive. So she focused on women. It's not the other way around. I don't know if that if if you can you smell what I'm cooking on that point.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, I think I can. And I think what really finally was like the nail in the coffin for that decision was one of the men in one of the groups that I did it for. Because I started out talking about how there's still gender bias in the workplace, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And at the end, he says, it's like you're living in the 1980s. We solved gender bias in the workplace for women in the 80s. And I I had to try not to react like that because I was like, keep it together, right? Like you're you're all. And there were two women that were in this group that I was presenting to. There were two women in the group, the rest were men, and these are all again C-suite level executives for businesses of all kinds. And I kind of like side-eyed both of them. Really, do you ladies feel that way? And they both turned on him because they could. They were members of this group that I was presenting to, and they were like, that's absolutely not true. And I was like, okay, good, because I'm not a spring chicken, but I was born in '83, so I wasn't in the workforce in 80. So I'm like, well, maybe I did miss it. Maybe we did solve this problem. And I'm the only woman in male-dominated industries who's being treated like dog shit. So I don't know. I guess we did solve it everywhere, but here, I don't know. But the women in the room validated, like, no, this is still a women's face every day in male-dominated industries in the workforce.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, totally. Well, and so I know you're doing these things, the the two things that we've talked about Sacramento. Um, hell, we'll just say California, you've expanded and invaded Arizona, you're coming to Texas, like little by little, you're expanding your dominion. And is it happening at the speed or the rate that you originally planned?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, okay. This is probably I'm here's my disclaimer. Listeners, do not take this advice. This is not how to do it. Do what Jesse says, not what Megan does. Okay. That's my disclaimer. I didn't plan it. I never had a plan. I did this. It's so bad. This is not how anybody should ever start a business, even if it's just a side business. But I had no actual like business goals or plans, and I didn't even know that I should. That's how bad it was. Like when you talk about the lessons that I learned from the failed launch of the first online course, I mean, it was even little things like, oh, you're supposed to actually set business goals, like financial business goal. And I was like, I didn't even like first converge. You came to me and said, Bless your heart. I love that you're doing this, but you literally, do you even realize that you're gonna have to put down deposits? And I was like, I'm gonna have to do what? I knew nothing, right? I knew nothing. I don't have a good answer for your question because it didn't even enter my mind. And here's the worst part I still do not have those sort of like growth goals. And that's in part because I am still practicing law full-time. So I have the luxury of treating this really cool hobby, which is why I always say I'm just selfish. Everything that I do because like it makes me feel good that I get to meet cool people, help cool people, hang out with cool people. It's not, I'm not my family is not reliant on what money I generate from my side business. And so I still don't have like specific intentional growth goals because I got to balance it with practicing law and servicing my law firm clients. So again, do as Jesse says, not as Megan does.
SPEAKER_00:No, well, so I love your vote of confidence, and I knew the answer, but I want to point out to people if you're listening to this podcast, you're there, you're already a little bit off. So that's good. I see it as evident to support that when you share your gifts and talents in service to others, amazing things happen that you could not even imagine. Would that be a good kind of summation of what you're experiencing?
SPEAKER_01:100,000 percent. Because never in a million years, when I hit post on my first LinkedIn post and thought that I was doing it to create that risk management course, never in a million billion years would I realize that I would be on my third annual year of hosting a construction conference. Like never, ever crossed that was never a thing I thought I wanted to do. Never. So absolutely, yes, I could not agree more with that encapsulation.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. So gifts and talents, you put them out there, you reached out, resilience. What's the other word I like to use? Tenacity, community, and it continues to grow. And like my experience is the same, right? It's I mean, you and I were talking before I hit record. Like, how am I doing? Like shit. Am I awake? Because it feels like a dream. I mean, I'm in Arlington right now, recording this, talking to an amazing human being that's having an impact in the industry, right? Not at home, not just at home, like the freaking industry. I'm gonna go hang out with a bunch of industry ballers, the DFW ballers, so we can do some marketing for Congress, LCI Congress national freaking organization. When I quit my job and said, I'm gonna start a bit. This was not on the plan, and none of it has been on the plan. It happens. And again, I 100% believe and love your testimony that when we share our gifts and talents in service to others, amazing things happen. You can't even anything you mapped out would be small compared to what is actually available to us. Now, you kind of dropped the hint there about I never would have imagined planning uh an annual conference that attracts some major ballers. What is the conference? Tell us about the conference.
SPEAKER_01:So the Converged Construction Summit, which I'd like to think, although it's a little bit of a mouthful, is much easier to say than construction LinkedIn in real life.
SPEAKER_00:Agreed.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, which is how we started. So this year, so we gosh, it's been, I cannot believe it's already been two months, two months since we were all in Sedona together for round two, which was the kickoff of actually the rebrand calling it Converge, but it was our second year. So it's been about two months now, two and a half months, since we were all together in Sedona. And planning is well underway already for 2026. And we've got some gross goals. So talk about growth goals. That's the one area where I did actually set some growth goals is for the summit. And I'm in the middle, I'm not sure when exactly you're gonna release this, but as we're recording, I'm in the middle of a week-long teaser campaign to reveal the location of Converge 2026.
SPEAKER_00:And so where is it gonna be? Because I don't even know and I'm gonna be there. I know that. I know I'm gonna be there. I've been at the first one, I was at the second one, but ain't no way I'm missing the third one. I'm looking at the teaser thinking, like, yeah, I know. I've talked, I got insider info. And then you drop another, I'm like, shit, now I don't know. Where is it gonna be?
SPEAKER_01:Are you gonna give me a drum roll? Chicago 2026.
SPEAKER_00:I love it, I love it. Oh, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, awesome. So, yeah, so again, I'm revealing, I'm gonna reveal a little bit more here for your listeners than what is publicly known. So your listeners are getting a peek behind the Wizard of Oz curtain a little bit here. And this is also the first time you're hearing that these decisions have been made, although we brainstormed these decisions together. So we will be in Chicago. We are moving the timing of the conference based on feedback that I received. So we will now be Wednesday through Friday.
SPEAKER_00:Ah, okay.
SPEAKER_01:Although Wednesday is going to only be for alums, our original convergers that have been before. And then we're gonna do all day Thursday and a half day Friday for any newcomers and important. Correct? Or stay for the weekend. A lot of people, one of the feedback, a lot of the feedback was based on wanting to be able to stay in the place that we are and bring families because that's one of the things that I love about Converge that I think sets us apart from some other construction conferences, is the number of attendees who actually brought their families. I think we had five partners, spouses, even kids and family members. And by the way, they're welcome to come to the actual conference too, if they care enough about the topic, but they're certainly welcome to come to our fun activities, which is one of the things that I'm hoping the Converged remains known for, is the outside of the conference. These to build that community because that's what started it all in the first place, was the community aspect. So we're expanding the number of days. We are shifting it a little bit so that people can spend the weekend in Chicago if they want. And we are, although I am gonna make more tickets available for purchase this year than I did last year, it is still going to be capped and limited because we are prioritizing that sort of intimate feel. And there is a chance that it might actually end up being invite only just based off of availability of numbers, based off of people who came last year and them already knowing that they want to bring specific people.
SPEAKER_00:So oh my god, that's amazing. Oh, I love okay. So recap Wednesday is alum. Yes, right? Converger is alum. You've been there last year, you get special access. Tuesday all day, half a day Friday, and then people can hang out on the weekend. You can bring your family because I brought my family to both the first one and the second one. I brought all of them, everybody that lives with me, anyways.
SPEAKER_03:Everybody there.
SPEAKER_00:So you talked about like the and I agree. We did the Jeep ride. We did what did we do in so oh the ghost tour? But I flaked on that because we had just got hit by a hurricane in Savannah, which was perfectly planned. Like, of course.
SPEAKER_01:But we also made we also did the riverboat dinner cruise where that ended up an impromptu dance party, which was I had a great time on the ghost tour, don't get me wrong, and Noelle and Bryant were there, and it was a good time. Goose is there, it was fun, but it was nothing compared to our impromptu dance party.
SPEAKER_00:That was amazing dancing on the boat. That was such a good time, yes. So there's that part, right? I know I love the intentionality behind that because connection, memories, right? Like real freaking life experience. Now, I've said the word conference a few times, but I want to be clear or maybe help. Let's make it clear for people. It's not like you're gonna sit there and be talked at, or am I wrong?
SPEAKER_01:No, I mean I hope nobody came away feeling like they sat there being talked at. That's definitely not the impression that I got from people.
SPEAKER_00:Good. So programming for this for 2026, when did you say?
SPEAKER_01:I didn't say the exact dates, but it's gonna be June 3rd through 5th.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so June. That's what people were gonna remember. June. Yep, we're gonna do June. And in terms of the do you have a theme figured out? Is it gonna be breakout, workshop-y, like roughly what can people expect to be jealous about because it's probably gonna be invite only.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, it hope hopefully it will be invite only, to be honest. But so that's the big question mark. The content of the conference itself is the thing that I am still trying to perfect. I at the end of the day, I am an attorney, which makes me type A and a perfectionist. Right? So I've iterated, I've reiterated, I've bounced ideas, I've talked to my own business coach about it, I've gone back and forth and back and forth. That is still up in the air. But the one thing that will be certain is that there will be tangible takeaways because I don't go to conferences where there aren't tangible takeaways. There will be opportunities to certainly build and strengthen connections and relationships. There will be opportunities to leverage those relationships into business relationships because that has happened naturally.
SPEAKER_03:Every time.
SPEAKER_01:Every time, and it's all natural. There is not, we do not have any built-in time, or we have not had in the past two years, and I don't think it will end up in this year either. There's no built-in time to force that to happen. It has happened naturally on its own, both years where people learn enough about each other and make genuine enough connections where they want to send each other work and start working together. There have been several actual collaborations that have arisen directly out of Converge. So that will definitely be there. It'll, I can guarantee you, good time. I haven't had anybody that didn't have a good time. And other than that, the content itself is still being perfected.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, good. I think that's enough to say, holy hell. And I want to like having similar conversations about other conferences that have that forced like networking hour, and here's the cards, and that doesn't work, but everybody does it, right? That's the that's what they know. The converge experience that just happens, right? And I was there in the first one, I was there in the second one, I'm gonna be there in the third one. And if I like the number one thing, and now also I'm a people person, right? I like community like connection, but the number one thing that really stands out to me is nobody comes selling their wares, right? People come to contribute and receive, and through the process of that, the connection happens. And sure, there's the River Poat ride, and there's other things that I think contribute to the actual connection happening, and so it seems to attract people that have a business and they're movers and shakers, they make stuff happen, but also want to connect in a meaningful way, not in a transactional way. And like maybe someday you'll do a study on it, but like how it would be nice, or maybe on not next year, but the year after that. Maybe you could just talk about it like, oh, yeah, this was this is how I planned it to drive connection and meaningful connection. And people are gonna say, Well, how? Well, you gotta come to find out, right? It's happened so consistently, yeah, that it's like you're doing it on purpose, but what's the recipe? Yeah, does that make sense?
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:And so, folks, you may or may not get invited. I'm gonna be there. I'm excited, and I and again, I've been able to. This is my brag, right? I've been able to watch it. When I say watch it, I'm talking about everything that Megan has uh talked about the course, the speaking, the branding, the pink, like the conference, everything that's man. Look at when I first saw the post, I said, I get Megan makes shit happen. She's amazing, and she's not gonna get the help that she should have to do this thing. And I want to be a part of it, and the rest is history. You let me come and visit and stay the weekend, meet the family, meet the kids, hang out with the husband, like eat delicious pizza. It's been magical. Okay, so you now you have a business coach, and so you're gonna love this question. What's the five-year plan?
SPEAKER_01:Oh my gosh. Oh, golly, Jesse. Hit me where it hurts on purpose. Okay, so I'm actually, I'm I despite all of my disclaimers about not being a business person and not really thinking strategically, what I do follow is ITR economics. And they are an apolitical firm that follows trends, they do all the things, forecasting, all the things that economists do. I'm not an economist. I never even took either macro or microeconomics. I barely even understand the difference between macro and microeconomics. But I sort of breaks it all down in a way that somebody like me can even I can understand it. And they've got a really great little podcast. It's six minutes, super easy to consume, but I follow them pretty closely, and they have their record for accuracy is some something what? Like 98.2% in accuracy for their for their economic predictions. And they are predicting a capital D depression in the 30s. I only mention that because that we're in 25 now. We're now in the second half. Somehow we are in the second half of 2025. Who knows how we got here already? We're somehow in the second half of 2025. So we're within that window now where like we could be starting to see the beginnings of that capital D depression at the end of that five-year window that you asked about. And so that has informed a lot of my thought processes behind my five-year plan. For that reason, I am definitely focusing on building out Converge, growing that intentionally. And I want to emphasize that I want to grow it intentionally. I do not want growth just for the sake of growth. My goal is not to be able to brag about the number of people who come or to brag about doubling my attendees, although I did double my attendees. But the goal is not to brag about it. The goal is to build with intention, right? Which is why it might be invite only. I want to be intentional about who's there, who's showing up, so their value add, right? So I want to intentionally grow converge over five years. I want it to take the shape of what it can be going into the future, maybe international. Yeah. So I definitely have some real five-year plan goals for Converge. With regard to the do-it-like a lawyer and the construction contract coach stuff, that really, and again, this is don't do as I do because this is not good business advice. But I really truly am really hesitant to set intentional goals, A, because when I did try that, it all failed spectacularly. I couldn't have predicted the things that have been successful. So with those two, my real goal in five for the next five-year period is to continue to pay attention to what people want from me, how I can best serve, help them learn and grow, and then continue to shape my offers and how I show up with that same intentionality so that I'm giving people what they need to help support them in their businesses so that they can be successful in the construction industry because it's an industry that adopted me. We didn't get into my, I think we did maybe in the first podcast. We didn't get into the story about how I ever even got involved in construction in the first place. But I fell into construction. It was not an intentional choice. I sort of fell into it and then fell in love with it. And so it's an industry that I love that has adopted me, that has brought me in, that I have adopted. And so my goals are to just simply continue to figure out how I can best support the industry and the people that are in it.
SPEAKER_00:I love it. I love it. Because you already know the way I roll. I don't have a, I mean, I'll say this I don't have a five-year plan, but I definitely have a direct, right? Like I am going in this direction. This is what I'm going to do. And because I learned that when I make a plan because of how obsessive I am, I have to execute that plan. And when I get that those kind of blinders on, I will filter out opportunities to serve, even though that plan is a bad idea or maybe causes me to play smaller than what's possible. So I'm like, forget, like I they what how much revenue? I don't know. Here's a number. I just picked a number that was like ridiculous, and I hid it. I'm like, oh shit, that was awesome. Well, next year I'll do, I don't know, 1.5 that. And oh shit. Okay, those are it doesn't work for me. Yeah. Right. And I'm a I'm an addict. And so if all I do is chase money, it's easy to get, I'm gonna get in trouble. Again, I'll end up, I'll need you to call one of your criminal lawyer friends to help me out over here in Texas. Again, I don't think the having that detailed milestone plan now, it works for some people, but for folks that like you that are sharing their gifts and talents and really just want to serve others, I think having that one five year super detailed milestone to out plan causes you to play small. That's my personal opinion. I'm living the amazingness of not doing it, you're living the amazingness of not doing it like to the nth degree. And again, I think if you just free yourself a little bit, you can have greater impact on the world. Yeah?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so we're gonna make sure we're gonna send everybody put the link, Megan Shapiro.com, because that's where you can access the Megan universe, which is I know is gonna continue to grow just because I've seen it and hell two years, just over two years, like explosion. So you are the first person for me to interview because you're only you're the only person that's had a second attempt at answering the question. Are you ready?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yes, I know what the question is. I remember it from last time. Okay, are you ready?
SPEAKER_00:You are amazing. You have inspired me, you're inspiring people. You let the big L's just roll off your chest, maybe not, but you keep coming back. And and you answered it one time. Something tells me that the answer might be a little different this time. Megan, what is the promise you are intended to be?
SPEAKER_01:So the first time I asked you what you meant by that.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. And now, two-ish years later, I don't need to ask you, not because you answered it before, but because now I have lived it enough to fully understand it. For me, my answer is the promise I am intended to be is to continue to show up authentically, to serve how I am needed, not how, not necessarily how I want to serve, but how I am needed to serve and to have fun and make connections along the way. Damn, it's like you didn't practice that, or did you? Because I forgot. I forgot that you end with, I really did, and so I didn't practice that. I didn't even give it any thought ahead of time.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, I love it. I love it because yes, I'm with you, girl. I'm with you. Oh my goodness. Did you have fun?
SPEAKER_01:Of course. I always have fun talking to you and hanging out with you.
SPEAKER_00:You're amazing. Thank you for sticking it out all the way to the end. I know you got a whole lot of stuff going on. And in appreciation for the gift of time that you have given this episode, I want to offer you a free PDF of my book, Becoming the Promise You're Intended to Be. The link for that bad boy is down in the show notes. Hit it. You don't even have to give me your email address. There's a link in there. You just click that button, you can download the PDF. And if you share it with somebody that you know who might feel stuck or be caught up in self destructive behaviors, that would be the ultimate. You sharing that increases the likelihood that. It's going to help one more person. And if it does help one more person, then you're contributing to me becoming the promise I am intended to be. Be kind to yourself, be cool, and we'll talk at you next time.